An Interesting Article on Mandarin Fishes

[albertthiel]

A good write up indeed .. but as a side note feeding brine shrimp Nauplii will make the Mandarin very happy ... and it will eat them with gusto. So will a Copperband butterfly for instance and anything that needs really small foods

http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/green-mandarinfish-dragonet-goby-synchiropus-splendidus-overview-1703/

Albert

[Stussi613]

I read a great article about feeding them Capelin Roe as well, apparently it's widely available at Asian Food Markets and they take to it quite readily.

My friend Ramblinpony just got a lovely pair from Got Fish? so I'm hoping to test the theory about the Capelin Roe out in his tank so I can determine if I can get one to thrive in my 8gallon nano tank when I re-do it

[Nyx]

We had 335 lbs of premium live rock in our tank; we'd replenish with bottled live copepods in the fuge regularly; the dragonet would be the only one in the tank and have no competition for food, such as a copper banded and they still only lasted a few months in our tank, even after the tank was 10 years old. I don't know that I'd try another one again, especially a wild caught one, as in our case, it would mean certain death. :\ Of course, if they will eat the roe you mentioned, Stuart, that would be great.

[albertthiel]

We had 335 lbs of premium live rock in our tank; we'd replenish with bottled live copepods in the fuge regularly; the dragonet would be the only one in the tank and have no competition for food, such as a copper banded and they still only lasted a few months in our tank, even after the tank was 10 years old. I don't know that I'd try another one again, especially a wild caught one, as in our case, it would mean certain death. :\ Of course, if they will eat the roe you mentioned, Stuart, that would be great.

Yes they will ... it must be real small and one has to feed them many times a day because they can only digest very little at each feeding session so one has to feed and feed at regular intervals several times a day .. in fact the more often the better

Albert

[ramblnpony]

Yes they will ... it must be real small and one has to feed them many times a day because they can only digest very little at each feeding session so one has to feed and feed at regular intervals several times a day .. in fact the more often the better

Albert

Apologies for the late replies but I have been having lots of problems with equipment and scrambling to get things back on line as well as doing the regular maintenance on the 180g. I had a 2 hob filters fail, a cheap skimmer that was a terrible design among other issues. I should have learned from previous experience, not to ever go cheap on equipment. You don't have to go expensive, just middle of the road.....

So I have tried frozen mysis, brine, and live brine shrimp, tiger pods, and now capelin roe. The problem with the capelin roe was that it was labeled flavored with msg among other things in the Asian sushi section. I wonder if you can get it any purer than this. It was pink, very tiny, and I rinsed it several times. It hard to tell if the mandarins are getting anything because they feed so slow picking only at the rock and sand and I have not had hours to just sit and watch. I'm already getting a bit of flack from the girlfriend about the amount of time I spend in the fish room lol. I will keep up with my water testing tonight and let you all know how things are working out in the next few days.
 

[albertthiel]

Apologies for the late replies but I have been having lots of problems with equipment and scrambling to get things back on line as well as doing the regular maintenance on the 180g. I had a 2 hob filters fail, a cheap skimmer that was a terrible design among other issues. I should have learned from previous experience, not to ever go cheap on equipment. You don't have to go expensive, just middle of the road.....

So I have tried frozen mysis, brine, and live brine shrimp, tiger pods, and now capelin roe. The problem with the capelin roe was that it was labeled flavored with msg among other things in the Asian sushi section. I wonder if you can get it any purer than this. It was pink, very tiny, and I rinsed it several times. It hard to tell if the mandarins are getting anything because they feed so slow picking only at the rock and sand and I have not had hours to just sit and watch. I'm already getting a bit of flack from the girlfriend about the amount of time I spend in the fish room lol. I will keep up with my water testing tonight and let you all know how things are working out in the next few days.
 

Thanks for the update and sorry to read about the tank and equipment problems you have been running into. And yes, buys the mid-range products is probably a good idea indeed ... the real inexpensive ones often fail after a short while.

Now on the food .. I would avoid any processed food or roe, as that is not good for your fish, and MSG may result in too much fat build-up in the fishes organs ... a little, one time, is not going to do any harm IME, but I would make sure that if you buy some again that you make sure that it has not been processed at all and that nothing has been added.

Now is the fish eating ? well I cannot see the tank so it is hard to tell but my guess is that unless it has sunken belly it must be eating, as a sunken belly would be a definite sign of under or malnutrition ... Mysis, Brine, Live Brine are all too large for it so I would use those for a Mandarin fish.

Brine shrimp Nauplii are fine or if you can get hold of frozen cyclopeeze you can thaw a little bit of it each time and that breaks up into very very small pieces too that the Mandarin can eat

Albert

[ramblnpony]

I forgot to add that yes I have also been feeding PE frozen cyclopeeze. It's a 45 gallon tank with a hob 4 gal refugium. I want to stalk it lightly and right now I only have a bicolor blenny in with the two mandarins. (The spirilla mysis, algae, and purple seaweed for the blenny) I am feeding lightly 3 times a day. I have not started the refugium yet as I am worried that the coral rubble for it is not fully cured and I am waiting on a new skimmer. Someone is supposed to lend me one hopefully tomorrow. I might just start it up and do a % water change if nitrites, nitrates, or ammonia climb. Right now they are good with no3 at 1. I know I jumped the gun on this not having everything in place before I saw the mandarins. I have only had them a week today and they still look healthy and their bellies do not look hollow. I will try and post some pictures this weekend. Thanks for the tips and I will look for some unprocessed Capelin Roe. I will also try and add the frozen cyclopeeze in small frozen bits to the low flow areas on the rock or sand instead turkey basting where most of it seems to drifts away. Fingers crossed.....   

[albertthiel]

I forgot to add that yes I have also been feeding PE frozen cyclopeeze. It's a 45 gallon tank with a hob 4 gal refugium. I want to stalk it lightly and right now I only have a bicolor blenny in with the two mandarins. (The spirilla mysis, algae, and purple seaweed for the blenny) I am feeding lightly 3 times a day. I have not started the refugium yet as I am worried that the coral rubble for it is not fully cured and I am waiting on a new skimmer. Someone is supposed to lend me one hopefully tomorrow. I might just start it up and do a % water change if nitrites, nitrates, or ammonia climb. Right now they are good with no3 at 1. I know I jumped the gun on this not having everything in place before I saw the mandarins. I have only had them a week today and they still look healthy and their bellies do not look hollow. I will try and post some pictures this weekend. Thanks for the tips and I will look for some unprocessed Capelin Roe. I will also try and add the frozen cyclopeeze in small frozen bits to the low flow areas on the rock or sand instead turkey basting where most of it seems to drifts away. Fingers crossed.....   

Yes do not rush things because they do not react well to low water quality  ... and if you only had them for a week then they may not be fully acclimated to the tank yet ...

If you set up the fuge and the rock is not fully cured watch that water quality real well so you have no ammonia or nitrite build up ...

I get my roe at an Asian market not far from my home and they do carry non treated one ... so you may just have to ask for it.

Keep us posted will you

Albert

[ramblnpony]

Will do Albert. I am going to hold off on the fuge until I have a good skimmer running. Also, I will look for another Asian food store for some natural roe. In the meantime I will check water parameters daily with a fresh salt water change ready just in case. I love these little guys as they sometimes play and follow each other around, especially later in the evenings. I'll post again soon. As always, thanks for your help! 

[albertthiel]

Will do Albert. I am going to hold off on the fuge until I have a good skimmer running. Also, I will look for another Asian food store for some natural roe. In the meantime I will check water parameters daily with a fresh salt water change ready just in case. I love these little guys as they sometimes play and follow each other around, especially later in the evenings. I'll post again soon. As always, thanks for your help! 

You  are very welcome ... and yes keeping an eye on the water quality is a good idea. I think that if you look around for unprocessed roe you should be able to find it ... I was able to here in the ATL area but did have to go explain to the seller at the Asian market exactly what I wanted.

Albert

[ramblnpony]

So I spent Saturday morning and afternoon searching for unprocessed Caplin Row. I went to T & T, China town, and the byward market. I found it in a few places but it was always the processed kind. I'll make one last try today after work to the Aruma ( Korean/Japanese) and the Win Tai market opposite Aqua Valley. In the US there is a product called Masago capelin roe that I hope to find today. So far the mandarins are looking healthy and are actively searching for food. I will continue to feed cyclopeeze and supplement with live newly hatched brine shrimp and pods. I have a few (not great pics) that I will try to upload. I might need Stuwarts' help.      

[ramblnpony]

Some not too great iphone pics......

[albertthiel]

So I spent Saturday morning and afternoon searching for unprocessed Caplin Row. I went to T & T, China town, and the byward market. I found it in a few places but it was always the processed kind. I'll make one last try today after work to the Aruma ( Korean/Japanese) and the Win Tai market opposite Aqua Valley. In the US there is a product called Masago capelin roe that I hope to find today. So far the mandarins are looking healthy and are actively searching for food. I will continue to feed cyclopeeze and supplement with live newly hatched brine shrimp and pods. I have a few (not great pics) that I will try to upload. I might need Stuwarts' help.      

I did some additional searches on the effect of MSG treated food and have actually not come up with anything negative other than the possible fat build up but if you can find unprocessed that would be better.

I guess than rather than going to the places you might want to call them and find out ...

The Cyclopeeze of course if fine and so are brine shrimp nauplii and the pods .. You could also try California Blackworms if you can find them as I prefer the live ones rather than the frozen ones.

Let me know what you find out on the Masago capelin ... Thanks ... and I saw the pics but they are very large when I click on the thumbnails but I will try to look at them after saving them and reducing their size. If I see anything out of the ordinary I will let you know.

I'll also check into the MSG some more ...

Albert

[Herstead]

Critter Jungle can order in live blackworms. I plan to start propagating them sometime in the near future for my tank.

- Jonathan

[albertthiel]

Critter Jungle can order in live blackworms. I plan to start propagating them sometime in the near future for my tank.

- Jonathan

They make great live food for your fish but you can only add a few at a time as they do not survive for long in SW .. so too many and will die and sink to the bottom and when they are not wiggling the fish seem to loose interest.

You can find articles on how to breed Lumbriculus variegatus on the Net.

Albert

[Greatwhite]

Mandarins are definitely one of my favorite fish.  In fact, they are the reason I got into the hobby to begin with... I walked by a pet store in a big mall in the states and they had a big salt tank with nothing but a HUGE mandarin hovering around in it.  It was awesome...

Hearing about two of them in a 45 that is not established worries me.  As long as you can see them eating when you feed them, they SHOULD be ok, but they may just mysteriously stop eating one day.  That said, you really shouldn't buy finicky fish with plans of supplementing their diet because the tank is not ready for them, especially if you don't have a steady supply of the supplement you plan on feeding.

I hope things work out for you, Ramblnpony...  My understanding is that 45G is "too small" for one Mandarin, let alone 2.  You may be supplementing for a long long time.  Starvation is the most common cause of death in these guys..

I lost mine to a fire worm sting.  

[robt18]

I had a mandarin in a 40gal for quite a while and he was fine, but I knew when I bought him that he was eating frozen mysis. He did very well, but they really deplete the copepod population of your tank and therefore I would say aren't ideal for your tank's overall health. My mandarin was healthy, but the tank undoubtedly suffered to some extent due to his appetite. I'd strongly recommend them for large tanks only.

[albertthiel]

I had a mandarin in a 40gal for quite a while and he was fine, but I knew when I bought him that he was eating frozen mysis. He did very well, but they really deplete the copepod population of your tank and therefore I would say aren't ideal for your tank's overall health. My mandarin was healthy, but the tank undoubtedly suffered to some extent due to his appetite. I'd strongly recommend them for large tanks only.

Since they eat constantly, as you say the copepod population will be depleted in no time.

They do well on Brine Shrimp Nauplii but of course that involves a set up to breed them and then a special feeding device you can refill several times a day ... it is actually depicted i my Nano Reef Aquariums book on pegs 207 and 208 and is an invention of Paul Baldassano who has created a number of other devices for use in our aquariums, e.g. the Majano Wand being one of them.

Feeding Mandarins often is one of the definite keys to success IME

Albert

[Greatwhite]

Feeding Mandarins often is one of the definite keys to success IME

Agreed - I don't worry about ANY of my other fish eating because they are not picky... But every feeding, I'd watch the Mandarin to make sure he was getting some.  He was definitely getting his fill of pods and whatever algae he'd get with them, but I liked that he'd eat frozen too for variety.. Plus, "vitamin enriched" mysis seemed like they were benefiting him.

[albertthiel]

Agreed - I don't worry about ANY of my other fish eating because they are not picky... But every feeding, I'd watch the Mandarin to make sure he was getting some.  He was definitely getting his fill of pods and whatever algae he'd get with them, but I liked that he'd eat frozen too for variety.. Plus, "vitamin enriched" mysis seemed like they were benefiting him.

Although there are other brands on the market of complete Vitamin supplements, the one that in my personal experience over the years has worked best for my fish and corals is actually Selcon. I have used VitaChem from time to time, and a few others, but it seems that Selcon for some reason does a better job on a consistent basis.

Of course, years ago, when I owned and ran "Thiel Aqua Tech" I used purr own Liquid Gold additive, but when I sold the Company in 1996, and since it needs to be prepared in rather large quantities at a time, I switched to Selcon when I ran out of Liquid Gold ...

One of these days I should start making it again as it was one of the top sellers amongst all our products, only second to X-Phosphate which we introduced to the Hobby in the mid 80's. Someone even suggested that if I do I should call it Reef Gold+ and improve the formula some more

Now I referred to the Feeder that Paul Baldassano developed, and below are three pictures (bad quality, but I took them with my phone as shots of the images that are in the Nano Reef Aquariums book).

The green piece is the top that has a little funnel into which the Nauplii are flowed, the long tube leads to the round cup you see at the bottom with the fish eating from it, and the cup is really just a round plastic short container, covered with mesh material, just large enough in size so the Naupii can get through.

It is actually amazing to watch what happens when the Nauplii are added sat the top through the funned and they slide down to the cup but are sort of trapped by the mesh, till they figure out how they can get out of it .... and guess what .... the fish are waiting for them to come out and gobble them up.

I believe Paul feeds his Mandarins and other fish that eat the real small food, 3 if not 4 times a day and because the Naupllii do not all come out at the same time of course this works really well as it keeps working like a food dispenser for quite some time. And Paul has two mandarins in his tank and they breed and breed and breed all the time. Of course he does not attempt to raise any as it would need an entirely separate set up etc ...

Here are the pics







Hopefully the pics give an idea of how Nauplii, and other real small pods, can be fed as one can add different foods into the funnel, and if the mesh material needs to be a little wider all Paul does is use another cup as he has several of them with different mesh sizes.

Albert