Tank sizes and stocking ideas

[Littorina]

Thanks guys!

    So in an 18 gallon cube, would you say 3 fish max? 

     This is the other decision I'm having trouble making - whether to just sick to the smaller, 18 gallon, to make sure we can manage it (and afford it!), or just bite the bullet and buy a 30 gallon instead (the max.  size I'd like to tackle right now), so we have room to grow and can buy the fish we love. 

     I've been researching 30 gallon tanks as well, but there aren't very many all-in-ones out there in that size (Innovative Marine makes one, but not sure of quality?).  The CAD Lights have a 34 gallon, although it's a bit over our budget, but also it's more rectangular than cube (I love the cube shape, and we don't have a lot of space for a larger tank), and then I think their next size is 50 gallon, which is WAY too big for us.....

[robt18]

Don't get intimidated by larger tanks - bigger tends to be much easier in the reef game. In an 18 I would put one fish. These guys need their space and tend to take a toll on their environment (in my experience at least). Once you get up to the 30-40 range, everyone has more room, is less stressed, and you can play around with things a little more. Your reef tank quickly turns from a display into a toy.

[Stussi613]

You can keep 2-3 fish in an 18g no problem, Rob is just erring on the side of caution 

This is a great read, and good place to start to see fish that are suitable for smaller tanks.

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/74703-lgreens-ultimate-guide-to-nano-fish/

If you are looking for an All in One (AIO) tank that is a cube then the 18g is your best bet.  If you want a bigger non-cube AIO then Innovative Marine makes a 24G and CADLights makes a 34G (I've seen it in person and it's a beautiful tank!).  Otherwise you're talking about a 30g tank and building a 10g sump and then a bigger skimmer and return pump and...the next thing you know you'll be WAY over the budget you initially set for yourself.

If you want to get a good idea of what you can keep in an 18g tank post something in the Ask Albert Thiel thread (http://ovas.ca/forum/index.php?board=98.0) and get his stocking advice, he's written books on nano tank keeping and knows allot about salt water husbandry in general.

Stuart

[Littorina]

Innovative Marine actually makes a 30 gallon cube (all in one) - it's my second choice after the CAD tank.  I just don't know if their quality is good or not (it is cheaper than CAD Lights, which is a plus, but no starfire glass of course), and I'd have to go to Montreal to get one (closest Innovative Marine dealer that I could find online).....Marinescape said they have the CAD 34 up and running.  I could go check it out, to see if the size intimidates me.

[Stussi613]

I helped David install the first CADLights 34g sold in Ottawa.  It's easily the nicest tank I've seen in that size, Starfire glass...excellent build quality.  I like the IM Nuvo series, but you're right in that they aren't Starfire glass and it makes a big difference.

[Littorina]

I'm definately going to give the CAD 34 gallon a look then.......if the size doesn't intimidate me, and the price is still within our budget, maybe it's a condender (even though it's not a cube!)!   :-)

[Greatwhite]

A rule of thumb that I was told years ago when I started is to figure about 1" of fish per 10 gallons of water.  I don't know how accurate that rule of thumb is, and there surely won't be aquarium police busting down your door if you overstock a little...

You need to think ahead when buying fish as to how big they WILL be, not how big they are currently.  I have 2 ocellaris clownfish who are about 8-9 years old, and they are 1.5 and 2", which is about double the size they were when I got them.  I have a hippo tang who was the size of a loony when I bought it, and it's now about the size of $3.50 after a year (and still growing).

Something to consider as well is that there's more to a salt tank than just fish.  Get a few nice colorful fish, and a bunch of nice coral -- and some cool shrimp, and you're set.  I love shrimp and crabs in my tank as much as my fish - and inverts don't count in the bioload because they help to clean!

[Littorina]

Hi Great White, we meet again!  :-)

I had read that "one inch of fish per gallon" rule too!  And I've already factored in the max. sizing for the fish I like. 

Personally, I love inverts over fish!  My dream tank would be corals, nudibranchs, sea cucumbers, starfish, shrimp and crabs!  :-)    The fish are more for my hubby and kids (though I would, of course, enjoy them too!).

[Greatwhite]

Hi Great White, we meet again!  :-)

ya.. I get around... 

My kids can sit (quietly) and stare at my tank for a long time..  My 7 month old boy LOVES watching the fish.

[robt18]

I had read that "one inch of fish per gallon" rule too! 

Careful, he said one inch per 10! Big difference

I've heard anywhere from 1" per 5-10 for salt, and don't forget that they grow!

[Littorina]

Whoops, that was a typo! 

[Greatwhite]

Whoops, that was a typo! 

I figured that it was a typo.. But someone who's new to the hobby, following and taking notes might go buy a 10" grouper for their nano, and then be surprised to find that it can grow to 3 feet.



I think Big Al in the east end had one of these guys a loooong time back... It was such a nice looking fish...

[cdylnicki]

The hardest part I think is patience.  You would be looking to only put in one fish after (at least) 3 weeks.

Also, be prepared to purchase lots of live rock (usually cheaper if you buy it all at once instead of piece by piece).  So in a 30 gallon tank, you would want at least 30 pounds of rock or more.

The coral banded shrimp (may) prey on snails, or even hermits.  I would not recommend trying this guy in an 18 gallon tank - the 30 would make a much better choice.  Try peppermint shrimp or cleaner shrimp!

Sun corals are a pain in the butt!  They can be difficult to feed and care for.  Mushrooms and polyps are easy starters and I highly recommend them. 

*same goes for nudibranch - expensive and can die easily* 

A pair of clowns may become territorial and will defend any fishes trying to enter their area.  be mindful of this when choosing other free-swimming fish.  maybe add them last.

starfish are also finicky - a lot of them will starve in captivity (some over months).  For example, the sand sifting stars are great for large (50+ gallon tanks) with large sand beds.  I think a brittle star would be a good choice (but they hide a lot - I only see my guys every few weeks).

az at Aqua Valley has good starter info on his page: http://www.aquavalley.ca/eshop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=217&zenid=a3espq9euvd2idhio6h0hhv423

and of course continue asking lots of questions!  I am so happy to see that you are planning and doing research prior to jumping in!

[Littorina]

Ooooooh!  That grouper is PURDY!!!! 

   I've been researching for months - it's kinda my obsession lately - I have definately been taking note of fish adult size when I browse the net for potential tank inhabitants!  And I'm also observing recommended minimum tank sizes suggested by the retailers also, which is why I am frustrated with a potential 18 gallon tank because a few of the fish I realllly like are more suited for 30 or 50 gallons. 

    I am also more than willing to cycle my tank slowly, I don't mind at all.  I want to do it correctly, especially with a small tank.  I don't want to add much of anything until I am confident I would have my water parameters stable.

     Thanks for the tip on the banded coral shrimp.  I didn't know they liked to pick off snails!  And with respect to the nudibranchs and starfish, note that I said that was my DREAM tank   ;-)      I know nudi's are very difficult (which is why I'd only consider the lettuce nudi, as it's supposedly easier to care for)......

Funny you mentioned brittlestars, because I MUCH prefer them to starfish!  I would love to have a brittlestar someday actually.  :-)

[Greatwhite]

Brittle stars are creepy looking.   I like the little Fromia starfish.  I had one who was about 1.5" in in diameter (if that's how you measure 5 points)..   Unfortunately, like they do often, mine disintegrated within a month.  I bought a nice little sand sifting star at the same time, and he's now 2 years old and about 4-5" across.

You definitely want a very established tank before adding a star of any kind because they can be very sensitive to changes in water params.  My sand sifter lived through a move and re-start of my 90 in 2" of watery mud for 5hrs.  I drained the tank, moved from the basement of my old house (so up stairs, into van, into main floor of new house) - and then refilled.  I'd call that a successful hardiness test.

Lots of nice fish start in the 30-50 gallon range.  Those guidelines from vendors are really minimum sizes, and some of those numbers are not really as accurate as I would go.  For instance, Mandarin Dragonets "require minimum 30 gallons" but will do MUCH better in a very established 50+ because their primary food source is the little critters on the liverock, and they have a voracious appetite and can wipe out all the pods quickly.

* WARNING * looking at this link may result in a bigger tank purchase.  This is the fish that got me into this hobby to begin with.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1635+554&pcatid=554

It's always a good idea to make up a fish list of your "dream fish" and check with experienced folk on their thoughts.  Some people have had problems with Chromis, which I think you mentioned as one of your desired fish.

This is probably the most important reference you can have as well;
http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/compatibility_chart.cfm

It'll tell you whether your desired fish will get along and save you grief early on.

[Littorina]

OCH!  Brittles are NOT creepy!!!  Shush! 

That spotted mandarin is gorgeous!  Wow.  Now see, the "difficult" care level would have made me just keep lookin', even though the fish is absolutely beautiful!  ;-)

Let's see, as far as easy, beginner fish I really like for smaller tanks (and not that I want allll of these; have to make a decision amongst them) my favorites are Ocellaris clowns, citrus clown goby, green clown goby, yellow clown goby, blue chromis (but you said some have problems with them?), and the Kaudern's cardinal.  I've been trolling liveaquaria.com so far for fish. 

Fish I know are more suited to nano tanks, and I like "second" best are azure damselfish, bicolor dottyback, or any colorful dottyback really....

[Greatwhite]

There was a thread last week (?) about chromis being problematic-ish...  You want to keep them in an odd numbered group as they tend to kill each other.  I think if you start with 5, you'll have 3 in a week or two. 

Damselfish in general are known to be aggressive and pains in the butt.

One neat little fish that I just haven't bought yet is a tailspot blenny.  They're tiny, and find little holes in your live rock to hide -- until feeding time.  They dart out, grab food, and zip back in their hole.

This is my little firecracker goby.  He's the most expensive fish in my tank, if I'm pricing the fish out by the inch.   Ironically, he's my favorite fish in my tank at the moment too.

[Littorina]

I would have only 1 chromis in my tank, if I got one, but wonder if they'd be aggressive towards other species too?  Will look for that thread....and actually, yeah, someone recently told me damsal's were agressive too, I had forgotten that (think it was at GotFish?)

Your firecracker goby is cute!

[Greatwhite]

It's in here;

http://ovas.ca/forum/index.php?topic=57451.0

ps/ GO CANADA!!! WOOOOOOOO!!!!