Substrate replacement

[101DalmatianMollies]

Hi Guys!!:D

So I've come to realize I think my substrate is hurting my corydoras. Both my albino corys have lost all their whiskers, and my bronze corys whiskers have been wounded. I'm assuming this is substrate related as I am using a bit of a coarse gravel that was given to me with the tank.

Now I want to help my catfishies. I know the most ideal is sand, but I figure if I put sand down ontop of the gravel it'll just eventually sink through the gravel to the bottom with gravel siphoning. How do you recommend removing as much gravel as possible, without disturbing the tank residents (4 tetras, 4 Corydoras, 1 bristlenosed plecostomus, and 4 assassin snails) as well as the plants (amazom swords and valisinaria(? - long grassy type low light)?

Any and all help is as always very much appreciated!! Thanks!!

[charlie]

If your goal is to not remove the livestock ,I guess you would have to divide sections of the tank & keep them to one side while you remove the gravel.
Personally I would not change substrate without removing the livestock to a temporary home for a day .
I remove livestock , plants etc,, remove old substrate & set aside in tank water , add new substrate then plants & other, then livestock with acclimation. I use some of the old substrate in a nylon type  sack & hang in the tank next to the pick up line of your filter.
You can even leave a thin bed of old substrate in the tank & cover with new substrate.
Best of luck.

[101DalmatianMollies]

...add new substrate then plants & other, then livestock with acclimation. I use some of the old substrate in a nylon type  sack & hang in the tank next to the pick up line of your filter.
You can even leave a thin bed of old substrate in the tank & cover with new substrate.
Best of luck.

I only have a 10 gallon available to me right now, with a short time frame is that ok to move all that livestock to?
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying re: substrate in nylon bag? Is this from a bacteria standpoint?

Thanks!!

[charlie]

I only have a 10 gallon available to me right now, with a short time frame is that ok to move all that livestock to?
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying re: substrate in nylon bag? Is this from a bacteria standpoint?

Thanks!!

That`s correct.
In a short time frame it`s fine.
Regards

[101DalmatianMollies]

Ok great. Now I am just cycling it as a fishless cycle, so I imagine it is probably best that I wait until that is complete before performing my substrate change? It's supposed to be my Pleco tank (bristles) for breeding. It shouldn't be an issue if my 33 gal residents reside in it for a few days during the big substrate change?

[charlie]

Personally i would just put the fish in a bucket
do your swap & reintroduce your livestock into their tank
My reasoning is the filter is already matured & the seeded layer of old substrate along with the old gravel  in a net hanging will prevent any bio filter issues.
The exception would be if you are using substrate such as ADA which will leech ammonia.

[101DalmatianMollies]

....the seeded layer of old substrate along with the old gravel  in a net hanging will prevent any bio filter issues.
The exception would be if you are using substrate such as ADA which will leech ammonia.

What do you mean by seeded layer?
What is ADA substrate?

The only areas of substrate I don't necessarialy want to remove are the areas where I have plants rooted. My valisinaria has a feeder growing and is doing very well! So I'd be afraid of uprooting it. My amazon swords have just taken root and have new growth that is much healthier than the old growth. Other than that I want to get rid of the rest of the substrate. I was thinking of just piling rocks around the bases of these plants to prevent the fish from getting at that portion of the substrate as I don't gravel siphon that close to them anyway.

[lucius]

For your plants, you can reach under them and palm them.  Then gently pull upwards and shake the gravel off.

How much gravel do you currently have?  You could always take some out and then place finer gravel instead of sand on top of your existing gravel.

[101DalmatianMollies]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/33431584@N08/15258690124/

That's a picture of the tank.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/33431584@N08/15695236347/

that's a closer view of the substrate. It's the brown colored stuff that seems sharp. By palming them and removing them, then replanting them won't be too traumatic? I just know I hated repotting outdoor plants as they didn't always make it.

[charlie]

What do you mean by seeded layer?
What is ADA substrate?

The only areas of substrate I don't necessarialy want to remove are the areas where I have plants rooted. My valisinaria has a feeder growing and is doing very well! So I'd be afraid of uprooting it. My amazon swords have just taken root and have new growth that is much healthier than the old growth. Other than that I want to get rid of the rest of the substrate. I was thinking of just piling rocks around the bases of these plants to prevent the fish from getting at that portion of the substrate as I don't gravel siphon that close to them anyway.

Seeded layer = a bottom layer of old substrate about 3/4 to 1 inch .the old substrate/gravel will be ripe with beneficial bacteria. Keep it by 1 inch away  from  the edge of the inner walls, so that when you add your new substrate on top of it, the old layer is not visible.
ADA substrate is a specialised soil type substrate that leech ammonia when new, so does other soil type substrate, the exception being Fluval.

[charlie]

Contrary to popular belief the tank water hold next to no beneficial bacteria, it`s the hard surfaces that the beneficial bacteria colonises on,  eg: inner  glass walls, gravel, ceramic type filter media.
The one benefit of retaining  the old tank water, is the re acclimation  of live stock is not a drastic change from the parameters they are comfortable in.

[Pyrrolin]

an easy way to get the old gravel out is with a dustpan.  Just pick up a new one for aquarium use only.  I personally don't recommend using different substrates in a tank unless it is layered or for just looks for a different effect.  Better to remove all the gravel and put in a catfish friendly substrate.  The plants will recover quickly.  You don't even have to drain the water if adding a single type of substrate.  Be sure to rinse it well before putting it in and have filters and so on turned off while adding new substrate to a tank with water in it so it can settle and not be sucked up and damage impellers.  If you can store the water in another container while you switch substrate, that would be better but you can usually do it with water in the tank.  I use dirt capped with sand in my tanks so I have to drain my tanks to change the substrate.

Play sand is a catfish friendly option though I personally don't like it and prefer darker sands for my taste

[101DalmatianMollies]

OK Great. So what I think I will do is remove as much water as I can, set aside the fish in a bucket, remove the plants and decorations, lower the water level as far as I can whilst hanging onto the water, then remove all the substrate, put in a sandy substrate that's cory friendly, let it settle, then put everything back in, fish last.

I'll hang a nylon stocking full of old substrate next to the intake, and add some of the big Al's live bacteria.

Is there any chance I could lose my fishies in this process?

[exv152]

I'll hang a nylon stocking full of old substrate next to the intake, and add some of the big Al's live bacteria.

Is there any chance I could lose my fishies in this process?

Anytime you change a substantial portion of the substrate there's a chance of sending your tank into a mini re-cycle. Also, the bacteria in a bottle doesn't do anything other than help promote the colonization of BB but it doesn't add it. You might want to consider changing it in smaller increments/proportions.

[angelcraze]

I didn't read the whole post yet, but why don't you just put a soft cap of sand on top of the substrate you beleive is hurting them?  I will get back later.

[angelcraze]

I didn't read the whole post yet, but why don't you just put a soft cap of sand on top of the substrate you beleive is hurting them?

I see now that's already been suggested  

Anytime you change a substantial portion of the substrate there's a chance of sending your tank into a mini re-cycle. Also, the bacteria in a bottle doesn't do anything other than help promote the colonization of BB but it doesn't add it. You might want to consider changing it in smaller increments/proportions.

This just alerted me.  Not only does this remove surface for BB, but you will be stirring all the debris caught/'settled in the gravel and possibly/probably be releasing all sorts of crap into the water column.

I absolutely recommend you remove the fish.  Even if they just rest in a rubbermaid container for a bit.

-Drain some of  your water into a container (rubbermaid or bucket) used for aquarium purposes only.  
-Net your fish and place them in the container when there is enough water in it.
-Syphon the rest of the water into the container without syphoning all the muck at the bottom.  Just discard the water near the bottom, forget about it.
-You can use a strainer to scoop up the substrate and put wherever if you are not using it right away.
-Syphon out the rest of the dirty water, but try not to clean the tank too much!!
-Add your rinsed new substrate and slowly add some of the water from the container your fish are resting in.
-Add your fish when the ratio of water in the container and water in the tank is approx. even.  
-Add the rest of the water, it will be clean (no debris floating around)
-Top off with fresh water to replace the mucky stuff you discarded.

The quicker you do the swap, the better, since, as already mentioned, the BB will attach to the inner glass of the tank, and you will want to avoid letting that dry out.  Leave your filters alone at this point, no need to rinse out the media today.  

It may have been what you were saying anyway, just didn't know where the fish would be, exactly.

I'll hang a nylon stocking full of old substrate next to the intake,

That's an old trick to give the nitrogen cycle a boost, to put your old substrate (still wet) into pantyhose or media bags, you can even just rest them over the new substrate.  After a few days and you are confident that the mini cycle (if it occurs) is not an issue, you can simply remove the whole media bag with old substrate contained in it.  At this point, the BB will have had time to colonize your new substrate.  Putting it in front of the intake is even better, but you hopefully won't have to worry about adding any BB to your filter, because you didn't mess with it.

You are not changing up very much water that your fish have to acclimatize to.
You are not really removing the old substrate right away, completely.  
The fish are just taking a vacation away from their tank for a little while.

I really don't see an issue with bacteria loss here.  Your fish are moving with the water, and you will be doing this quickly, I think your fish will be fine