cycle

[Mike L]

I'm getting a tank started again that has sat without fish in it but running for roughly 3 months.The tank had run for 2+ years.
 Just over 2 weeks ago I added media from an established filter to the tank, dosed with ammonia did reading 1/2hr later and got roughly 1-2ppm.Cycle started. Next day tested and had little ammonia so repeated. The following day trace ammonia but nitrites in.50 range. So I've repeated every second day. I dosed again last night  but increased by half the dose as I was getting 0-ppm on ammonia and nitrites and no nitrates. Today I have 1ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrites have readings in the 40-80 ppm range in nitrates. Where am I. I have never done fishless cycle.  My inclination is to do a 50% water change take readings dose again and see where I'm at tomorrow. My thinking being the increased dose has not been broken down from ammonia to nitrites but if that is the case why the high nitrates.
I have wild caught comps coming in but am inclined to hold the shipment.
Mike

[Mike L]

Did a 50% water change yesterday. Ammonia .25 nitrite 0 and nitrates 40. Any help would be appreciated so I can confirm some thoughts.

[Mike L]

59 people have looked at this post and not one has an idea or thought. Maybe what was posted about the club last week has some validity.

[missavgp]

Sorry, I looked but didn't get a chance to respond at the time and didn't get back to it. I have actually had a similar experience when doing a fishless cycle with used media. I was changing the substrate and cleaning the tank, but using the same filter. I dosed with ammonia and got an ammonia reading, and the next day got a small nitrite reading, trace ammonia and this quickly led to high nitrates.

During a fishless cycle your nitrates will go through the roof before your water change. It is really hard to wait for it to be done. And when you are getting 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and your nitrates are really high, that's when you need to do a 70-90% water change to take the nitrates out, and then give a dose of ammonia again to make sure that it is gone in 24 hours. Then the tank is good.

Not sure if this will be helpful at all, I've fishless cycled all my tanks except the first one (poor fish).

[Jeff1192]

Weird.....did you get nitrite readings of .5 for multiple readings or just the one test? As you know I did a fishless cycle on my 90 when I was setting it up. I'm wondering if you had multiple days of nitrite readings maybe upping the dose of ammonia was too high for the bacteria to keep up in converting that much to nitrite?

Plus I find that with fishless cycling with established media in the filter you can get some wonky readings some times. I had a couple of days with readings where things weren't what I expected.

Jeff

[bitterman]

What tests are you using for the ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate? Alos of the drop tests and universal kits are very inaccurate.

Ideally you want you tank such that you put in ammonia at night and in the morning you see the following:

0 Ammonia
0 Nitrite
X Nitrates

If you up the dose of ammonia, It will take longer and maybe show some Ammonia and Nitrate still.

The nutrify bacteria colony grows to the size it needs to be for the load in a tank. Change the load in the tank and there is some lag time for the colony to grow fast enough.

I would suggest that since you are getting very sensitive fish might want to hold off. Another thing is fishless is good but do you have any semi sensitive fish about the same mass as the new fish you are getting? Might be worth using them as a test for the tank. Put them in it to ensure all is good for a week or so. Then keep them there to keep the tank seeded. When the new fish arrive put those fish back in there other tank and put the new fish in the cycled tank. The night before you get the new fish I would do a 50-70% water change to ensure the nitrates are low as Calvus/comps are sensitive and do not ship well. This will give them the best chance.

Bruce

[Mike L]

 Thanks all.
Your right about the fish Bruce. This is why I want to have nailed it. Another lesson learned. I should have written everything down. I had 2 days of nitrites @.50 then nothing. So I started testing for nitrates and they took a couple of tests before I started seeing any readings. It took about 4 days and then bam. Through the roof. I did do a 50% water change at that point. Tested after and got a reading  around 10-20ppm. dosed again next day really high nitrates, trace ammonia and 0 nitrites.
So here is were I'm at. After doing a 50% water change yesterday and dosing I tested this morning and I have trace ammonia, no nitrites and 40ppm nitrates. I have done a massive water change this morning and dosed. I will test tonight and tell you the results.
Mike

[neon1423]

I've learned that if I'm getting weird test results after doing a water change that I test the tap water. Its my understanding that most tap water (mine does) has about .25-.5ppm of ammonia in it, but in a non-toxic, inert state, so that might be throwing off your water tests.

[Mike L]

I've learned that if I'm getting weird test results after doing a water change that I test the tap water. Its my understanding that most tap water (mine does) has about .25-.5ppm of ammonia in it, but in a non-toxic, inert state, so that might be throwing off your water tests.

Where are you located. What is your water source. In my established tanks I get trace ammonia reading which is normal due to the way water conditioners work. I have never had my ammonia readings come out the yellow colour on the charts but something in between first and second on the chart.
I did an 80% water change yesterday and dosed at 1-2ppm. This morning my readings are .25 or .50 hard to tell. nitrites 0ppm and nitrates 5ppm. so it appears that the cycle is there but not up to the dose I'm giving quite yet. Does this sound right.

[missavgp]

Yes, it sounds like it is almost cycled, but not quite there yet, especially if the species is a more sensitive one (or expensive but frequently those two go hand in hand)

[neon1423]

Where are you located. What is your water source.

I'm loacted in barrhaven, and I'm on city tap water

[nemo14]

Hello Mike L

I'm in the same boat as you are in. I started a new set up and have the same problem as you very high nitrates doing 50 % water changes every week. tank is cycled but the high nitrates are from low anaerobic bacteria colony.This is the good bacteria that breaks down the nitrate to hydrogen sulfide gas that evaporates with surface movement. Nitrates is at the end of the nitrogen cycle. The problem is that it take a long time to build up good levels of anaerobic bacteria this is the one bacteria that needs no oxygen to grow well and because we have such large filters that pump out 350 gallons per hour this don't help to grow anaerobic bacteria. to grow a good colony of this bacteria you need to have a filter that runs about 10 to 20 gallons or less per hour with very little oxygen almost like a trike filter and have good biological media like bio home ultra that supports  aerobic  and  anaerobic bacteria. The only thing you can do is use some form of chemicals to remove the nitrates from your water and do your weekly water changes the same until your anaerobic bacteria builds up to a good level.

Hope this helps you out.

P.S check out the bio home media on the net i am and it looks like it work great to control both nitrite and nitrate.