Plant Help

[exv152]

Check out these co2 regulators. It's a miniature dual stage, which means it controls the pressure in two stages making delivery consistent, and you don't get the end of tank dump. If I needed to replace one of mine, I wouldn't hesitate to try one of these. No one locally carries DUAL STAGE regulators (not to be confused with dual guage).

http://www.co2art.co.uk/collections/dual-stage-regulators/products/aquarium-co2-dual-stage-regulator-and-solenoid-magnetic-valve-smc-valve

If you ever need any help with co2, there's always a handful of experienced guys willing to help on this forum.

[George2]

Check out these co2 regulators. It's a miniature dual stage, which means it controls the pressure in two stages making delivery consistent, and you don't get the end of tank dump. If I needed to replace one of mine, I wouldn't hesitate to try one of these. No one locally carries DUAL STAGE regulators (not to be confused with dual guage).

I've always wondered about the "end of stage" dump. I am using a paint-ball adapter on my CO2 regulator. Does this affect whether the end-of-tank dump occurs? How long does the end-of-tank dump usually last for? I have never observed it. If I turn up the amount of CO2 injected into my aquarium, the only thing that happens is that I get larger bubbles emitted from my diffuser, which shoot up to the surface faster. I don't actually see an increase in CO2 in the water after a certain point. This is why I wonder about the end-of-tank dump.

There has not been much discussion about paint ball CO2 tanks. I know they are more expensive to fill in the long run but they are convenient to deal with.  I have two tanks which I swap out every 3-4 months. When one is empty, I swap in the full one and then bring the empty one to Canadian Tire to be filled up.  :)

[exv152]

I've always wondered about the "end of stage" dump. I am using a paint-ball adapter on my CO2 regulator. Does this affect whether the end-of-tank dump occurs? How long does the end-of-tank dump usually last for? I have never observed it. If I turn up the amount of CO2 injected into my aquarium, the only thing that happens is that I get larger bubbles emitted from my diffuser, which shoot up to the surface faster. I don't actually see an increase in CO2 in the water after a certain point. This is why I wonder about the end-of-tank dump.

There has not been much discussion about paint ball CO2 tanks. I know they are more expensive to fill in the long run but they are convenient to deal with.  I have two tanks which I swap out every 3-4 months. When one is empty, I swap in the full one and then bring the empty one to Canadian Tire to be filled up.  

End of tank dump (EOTD) is real. It's not a myth or a sales gimmick (I know you're not suggesting it). But it's happened to even the most experienced hobbyists. It's also not like turning up the needle valve to get more co2, and the bubbles get bigger, or come out faster in the bubble counter. EOTD is a sudden gush that makes your bubble counter look like the water is boiling in it. It makes sense if you know about gas and internal vs external cylinder pressure. When the liquid co2 gets all used up and only gas remains, the drop in pressure pushes all the gas out faster.  Most single stage regulators can't control this, and your safety valve (someone suggested this at the last plantaholics) won't prevent the EOTD. One way to prevent it is to swap the cylinder out when you see it begins to drop from 800psi on the gauge to like 600. Or you use a ph controller, or a dual stage.

[George2]

End of tank dump (EOTD) is real. It's not a myth or a sales gimmick (I know you're not suggesting it). But it's happened to even the most experienced hobbyists. It's also not like turning up the needle valve to get more co2, and the bubbles get bigger, or come out faster in the bubble counter. EOTD is a sudden gush that makes your bubble counter look like the water is boiling in it. It makes sense if you know about gas and internal vs external cylinder pressure. When the liquid co2 gets all used up and only gas remains, the drop in pressure pushes all the gas out faster.  Most single stage regulators can't control this, and your safety valve (someone suggested this at the last plantaholics) won't prevent the EOTD. One way to prevent it is to swap the cylinder out when you see it begins to drop from 800psi on the gauge to like 600. Or you use a ph controller, or a dual stage.

THanks for the explanation. Yeah, I wasn't implying that it did not exist. :) I was just trying to figure out why I have never seen it. Since I am using smaller painball tanks (24oz), I wonder if that has anything to do with it. What I have found is that the pressure gauge needle on my regulator barely changes at all, until maybe a few days before  the tank is empty. After that, I see a decrease in pressure until the bubbles stop.

[charlie]

Further to what exv152 stated, some may not experience it, for a multiple of reasons, equipment plays a big part,a well built single may never see it, while those that inject moderate CO2 is less affected as oppose to those that is injecting on the knife`s edge.

[wolfiewill]

I've had the misfortune to arrive at a friend's house just as an end of tank dump was occurring. There is nothing to see with respect to the gas itself. It's the fish behaviour that's the tell tale sign. The ones that were still alive were at the top of the tank gasping for air amid the others that had died. I did a couple of 50% water changes and saved about 30% of the fish. I was also at Rah's place one morning after which he'd experienced the same thing. In that case all his fish were gone. CO2 concentrations are in the hundreds of ppms using the pH v KH chart.
If you ask the guys are Davidson, they say that when the tank pressure gets to 500 psi there is no more liquid in the tank and it's time to change it. I find with smallish tanks that the pressure drops from about 600 to zero in a couple of weeks. And I run them down to zero often and had no EOTDs myself. And I have no dual stage CO2 kits. I check the tank pressure weekly and change them after they get to about 200 to 300 psi if I can.

[wolfiewill]

Here's a link to that situation with the EOTD I mentioned above:

http://ovas.ca/forum/index.php?topic=59308.0

[101DalmatianMollies]

This is awesome! I love all the discussion around CO2! I need to sit down and really read it all but I wanted you all to know I really appreciate your input!

Out of the following 3, as they probably all need upgrading in my tank and I've been looking at doing a tank overhaul, what would be the most important to start with? (as cost is an issue and I can't do all 3 at once)

Lights
addition of CO2 (so getting all the equipment)
Substrate

Thanks!

[exv152]

This is awesome! I love all the discussion around CO2! I need to sit down and really read it all but I wanted you all to know I really appreciate your input!

Out of the following 3, as they probably all need upgrading in my tank and I've been looking at doing a tank overhaul, what would be the most important to start with? (as cost is an issue and I can't do all 3 at once)

Lights
addition of CO2 (so getting all the equipment)
Substrate

Thanks!

I'd suggest substrate, then co2 and lighting last. If you upgrade your lighting before the co2 you'll just be inviting an algae farm.

[charlie]

This is awesome! I love all the discussion around CO2! I need to sit down and really read it all but I wanted you all to know I really appreciate your input!

Out of the following 3, as they probably all need upgrading in my tank and I've been looking at doing a tank overhaul, what would be the most important to start with? (as cost is an issue and I can't do all 3 at once)

Lights
addition of CO2 (so getting all the equipment)
Substrate

Thanks!

You are right in thinking all 3 needs to be upgraded, if you want to keep more demanding plants such as most carpeting plants.
Lighting is the director/commander of everything in the planted aquarium, it will dictate what plants you keep and the requirement of all nutrients including CO2.
That said they are ways & means of doing all 3 in an economical way if you have a lot of patience, example you can look at doing a dirted tank by far the cheapest way, but not something i would personally recommend for beginners , others may say different, do some reading on the Walstad style tank.
Depending on size & shape of tank , they are economical lighting options, as an example i have used T5 HO strips that come plug & play,and a reflector can be added, complete it may be in the &50.00 area.
Again depending on tank size there are several options for co2, for me personally a good quality single stage regulator & tank, there is also the paint ball set ups.
If you want to go into details of anything i suggested, feel free to contact me & i would be happy to helo in anyway i can.
I`m sure other plated tank hobbyist can chime in with some other ideas.
Regards

[101DalmatianMollies]

You are right in thinking all 3 needs to be upgraded, if you want to keep more demanding plants such as most carpeting plants.
Lighting is the director/commander of everything in the planted aquarium, it will dictate what plants you keep and the requirement of all nutrients including CO2.
That said they are ways & means of doing all 3 in an economical way if you have a lot of patience, example you can look at doing a dirted tank by far the cheapest way, but not something i would personally recommend for beginners , others may say different, do some reading on the Walstad style tank.
Depending on size & shape of tank , they are economical lighting options, as an example i have used T5 HO strips that come plug & play,and a reflector can be added, complete it may be in the &50.00 area.
Again depending on tank size there are several options for co2, for me personally a good quality single stage regulator & tank, there is also the paint ball set ups.
If you want to go into details of anything i suggested, feel free to contact me & i would be happy to helo in anyway i can.
I`m sure other plated tank hobbyist can chime in with some other ideas.
Regards

I saw the builds you sent me! They look awesome! I would love to discuss with you more definitely. I'll take a look about Walstad style tanks.

My concern with switching out substrate is how to do it, without disrupting the fish. But from what i've gathered from previous posts where I've broached this question, I can simply move them into a bucket with the filter, or a temporary tank with the filter and some substrate, and do the switch out. The current tank they are in is a 33 gallon. I have a backup 10 and 20 sitting empty in the basement so I can move them.

In terms of substrate that's good, what about this; http://www.fluvalaquatics.com/ca/fluval-products/aquarium-plant-care/plant-substrate/

Thanks!

[charlie]

I saw the builds you sent me! They look awesome! I would love to discuss with you more definitely. I'll take a look about Walstad style tanks.

My concern with switching out substrate is how to do it, without disrupting the fish. But from what i've gathered from previous posts where I've broached this question, I can simply move them into a bucket with the filter, or a temporary tank with the filter and some substrate, and do the switch out. The current tank they are in is a 33 gallon. I have a backup 10 and 20 sitting empty in the basement so I can move them.

In terms of substrate that's good, what about this; http://www.fluvalaquatics.com/ca/fluval-products/aquarium-plant-care/plant-substrate/

Thanks!

While some hold the opinion it`s substandard , i think it`s good certainly not the best but in Ottawa we are blessed with soft water, which lends it self nicely to planted tanks & as such less dependent on the best substrate 
I personally have used it in my 79 gallon tank since 2011 with no regrets.
http://ovas.ca/forum/index.php?topic=52173.0
Regards