What is everyone P04 levels in your planted aquarium.

[nemo14]

Hello everyone !

I would like to know what people's readings are for po4 levels in a high tech planted aquarium. Why i ask is because im running at 5.0 ppm now because i'm trying to get rid of green spot algae and i did a lot of reading on forums and got a lot of feedback that it's because i'm bottoming out on PO4 levels i was around 0.25 to 1 ppm. I used dry fertilizers kh2po4.

Second question whats the maximum PO4 levels before it starts to affect the fish?

I have a feeling it's my levels of po4 because i run my t5 lights on a timer only 5 1/2 hours a day down from 8 hours a day and still got green spot algae and co2 is at 30 to 35 ppm all the time it's set up to a ph controller set at 6.6 ph. does pps pro on a dosing machine every day at the same time one hour before light on and only 15 ml of macro and micro on a 150 gallon aquarium to me that not much fertilizer. 

Thanks in advance everyone.

[wolfiewill]

I use the PPS system on all my tanks, too, but not the commercial version. Dry ferts dissolved in water as per Rex Grigg's methods. For moderately lit tanks the targets are 10 ppm NO3 and 1 ppm PO4 with CO2 dropping the pH about 1 ph unit from the tanks baseline pH (mine are about 7.2 using city water so I target 6.2 or lower in these tanks). This is usually over 30 ppm CO2.

In a bright tank my targets would be 20 ppm NO3, 2 ppm PO4 and a pH drop of about 1.25 to 1.5 pH units below baseline. I suggest that you use the Aquatic Plant Central 'fertilator' to develop stable water column chemistry first, then raise the CO2 levels to beyond what you think you need (up to 60 ppm will not harm your livestock), and play with the light levels by raising or lowering the lights. If the tank is newly set up be patient, they take time to settle. And make sure you are using a quality micro fertilizer (Seachem Comprehensive or CSM+B and target 0.1 ppm on the fertilator program). Also, make sure the GH is 4 or more (I use Seachem Equilibruim).

As for what levels of phosphate will harm the fish, I don't ever recalled anyone mentioning that... ever. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrates - yes, but not phosphate. That's one question I've never heard of.

Tom Barr would tell you to add more and don't worry about these levels. The crux of the matter is to over feed the plants with ferts, and CO2 and adjust the light levels. I have a CD of his presentation at the last AGA conference if you would like to borrow it. I can give it to you if you come to the Plantaholics meeting on Wednesday night.

[nemo14]

Hello wolfiewill ! Thanks for the fast response.

OK i think i understand what your trying to teach me. When you talking about NO3 you mean nitrates in water column at 20 ppm and your po4 1 ppm ok what i have is nitrates after water change is 5 ppm and po4 at 5.0 ppm i see the ratio is way off.

Is it true that if your po4 levels are to low that the plants can't uptake the no3 in the water column? and the plant get's weaker with time and grows to slow to out compete the algae?

This is what my recipe is right now with pps on a 1000 ml bottle.
macro:
kno3:  65 grams
k2so4: 59 grams
kh2po4:  18 grams from 6 grams because of GSA on plants and glass i increased it because they said higher po4 kills GSA
mgso4:  41 grams

Micro:
csm+b:  80 grams

i does 15 ml of each every day dose this sound right to you since you are using pps like me.

Now for my tap water it's the same as yours P.H is 7.0 to 7.2 now the question is to you do you bring you P.H down with chemicals first to get it as close to where you want it then use the co2 to drop it 1.5 pH units below baseline for your 30 ppm of co2 or do you use the co2 to drop your P.H from 7.2 to 6.2 and leave it on 24/7 with a P.H controller?

My K.H is at 5 ppm and G.H is at 6 ppm

I would love to go to the meetings i would learn so much but the problem is i live 1 hour away if only i was closer to Ottawa.

Well thanks for your help wolfiewill planted tanks are harder than it looks its a real science class lol hate to see salt water omg.

[wolfiewill]

When you talking about NO3 you mean nitrates in water column at 20 ppm and your po4 1 ppm ok what i have is nitrates after water change is 5 ppm and po4 at 5.0 ppm i see the ratio is way off.

Yes the ratio should be 10:1. It's called the Redfield Ratio. It's good science, although done in marine ecosystems.

Is it true that if your po4 levels are to low that the plants can't uptake the no3 in the water column? and the plant get's weaker with time and grows to slow to out compete the algae?

I doubt that it's not that it can't take up NO3; but it's probably more to do with how the plants use each ingredient: Nitrogen is used to build protein and needs to be in a proper ration with Carbon. Phosphorus is used principally for energy to run the various chemical reactions in biological systems. Each one of the three will limit plant or animal growth if not available. But I doubt they will retard uptake of another.

What size is your tank? You really need to look this up on the 'Fertilator'. You have everything below that would facilitate that. My ferts are separate: I have one with KNO3, one with KH2PO4, I add Equilibrium to get the GH at or above 4.0 after each water change, and dose Comprehensive every other day. I dose based on uptake only (I test everything each week - it's less time consuming than doing water changes).

... do you bring you P.H down with chemicals first to get it as close to where you want it then use the co2 to drop it 1.5 pH units below baseline for your 30 ppm of co2 or do you use the co2 to drop your P.H from 7.2 to 6.2 and leave it on 24/7 with a P.H controller?

I drop the pH with CO2 only. It's timed to come on about 2 hours before the lights come on. This is to make sure the target is achieved before the lights come on. Variable pH is a major cause of algae. A pH controller is very convenient but not necessary. Just make a habit of testing the pH just as the lights come on and adjust the bubble count and/or 'on' time if it's not at target at that time.

My K.H is at 5 ppm and G.H is at 6 ppm.

Forget about KH. It doesn't really matter in a tank which is receiving lots of the proper ferts. A GH of 6 is perfect. Just make sure you bring it back to that after a WC.

I would love to go to the meetings i would learn so much but the problem is i live 1 hour away if only i was closer to Ottawa.

Send me a pm if you would like to discuss a visit. I do house calls, and I love to talk about this kind of stuff.

[nemo14]

Hey wolfiewill !

OK i'm starting to see the relationships between the fertilizers. So you does every fertilizers separate for better control of what your plants need i could do that i have a 4 head dosing pump but i just followed the recipe for the pps pro formula for a 1000 ml bottle and adjusted it a little for the gsa.

I'll check out the fertilizer calculator for sure is there a setting for the pps pro on the calculator?

You would drive 1 hour away to help a fellow Aquarius out wow that's what i call support how much do you charge for your time? I might just take you up on that offer if i'm still having a hard time to balance thing out.

The aquarium is 150 gallon.

Ok off to look at the fertilizer calculator thanks for your help wolfiewill

P.S you just might get a pm from me for that visit.

[wolfiewill]

So you [dose each fertilizer] separate for better control of what your plants need i could do that i have a 4 head dosing pump but i just followed the recipe for the pps pro formula for a 1000 ml bottle and adjusted it a little for the gsa.

Yes, I dose each separately depending on each tank's needs. But I test for these first! I use Seachem Nitrite/Nitrate and Phosphate test kits and dose only what I need to achieve my own targets. I dose NO3 and PO4 on day 1, 3, 5 after a maintenance day; micro ferts on day 2, 4, 6; day 7 is maintenance day and is when I do my tests. This allows me to decide then whether or not to do a WC, and how much of each fertilizer is needed for each tank. Initially you will need to test three times per week to get a feel for what is necessary, but ultimately only once per week. It takes me only about 15 minutes and I test 7 or 8 tanks each week. The fish load makes a big difference with the NO3 and the substrate type may have an effect on the PO4 uptake.

I'll check out the fertilizer calculator for sure is there a setting for the pps pro on the calculator?

There is not a setting for the fertilizer regime on Fertilator. It's not necessary to start off. You are thinking of Petalphile.com and it appears to be gone from the internet at the moment.

You would drive 1 hour away to help a fellow Aquarius out wow that's what i call support how much do you charge for your time? I might just take you up on that offer if i'm still having a hard time to balance thing out.

Yes I would drive an hour to help you out. I don't charge for consultations. That's not work, and I like driving and talking planted tanks.... a lot.

[nemo14]

Hey wolfiewill!

Well that is cool of you to do that i will let you know how things work out and if i'm in trouble i would love to meet you and talk your ear off with questions i have a lot to learn. If you come down in my end of the woods i'll supply the donuts and coffee lol.

I will pm you in a few weeks if the GSA returns or any other problems.


Take care my friend.