Malawi Experiment

[slickshooter]

Hello all,
Its been awhile since I've checked in here but I figured it was due time I updated you all on my "experiment".

I'll give some background for those who don't know my setup.

I have a 75G tank with sand as substrate and a Fluval 404 and 2 AC500's (or whatever they're called now)
The Fluval has the supplied foam as well as a layer of Polywool and two layers of Biomax. The AC500's have only the supplied foam.

I have a mix of 2 Kenyi,8 Met Esterae,6 Yellow Labs and 8 Acei in the tank.

Now for the "experiment" :
A year ago I forgot to put dechlorinator in my tank while changing the water.The next week I realized I was out while doing the next change.Wouldn't you know it,it was a long weekend and nothing was open ! Two weeks in a row and roughly 35% water changes each time without dechlorinator and I saw no ill effects on my fish.
The colour was still bright.No visible marks on them.Breathing seemed normal and they were still doing their breeding "thing" after each water change like they always did.
It has now been over 1 year since I have used dechlorinator during my water changes!

Now I realize this stuff isn't expensive and I am taking a chance but I tend to be someone who needs to learn on their own.

I have had several batches of fry survive during this time and have only had one death of an adult.Which was picked on-to death.

Are these products really needed? I don't know but one thing I do know is that they are "mostly" marketed for the US market and its my understanding that they have higher contents on average than we do here of Chloramine.

Another part of my "neglect" has been to not clean the substrate as I used to. I have a python and it doesn't have the suction that my handpump did and it doesn't pick up anything off the bottom.
During my weekly 35% water changes I  wash out ONE AC500 sponge in tank water and the other I clean thoroughly under the tap (yes I realize I'm losing benefital bacteria).I alternate the sponges cleaning  biweekly.
Every two months (or so) I dispose of the Polywool in the Fluval 404 and replace it with new product.I also rinse out the sponge in tap water.

Now some of you may be cringing at this but lets see... I've heard that a tank can only support so much good bacteria at one time.
I always have good bacteria on atleast 1 AC500 at any given time and between cleaning I'm sure my Fluval is full of the goodies.

I'm sure wild caught Malawi Cichlids would not fair well in this situation but I must ask.....

Are our fish so far removed from the wild that they have adapted already?

[darkdep]

I'm very interested.  I'm a big fan of experiments myself.

I might suggest that doing a 35% change will add some chlorine/chloramine to the tank, but the amount will be pretty low.  Given time (longer for Chloramine, but eventual) it WILL dissipate; at least that's what the chemistry would tell us.

I'm not ready to stop using it, but I'm interested in reading your story for sure.

[slickshooter]

Thats my point exactly.If most of us do 20%-50% water changes and that isn't enough to harm our fish Chloramine wise.....why do we use the dechlorinator?
Besides how many of us had goldfish as kids and we did 100% water changes with no additives to the bowl.
Is there anyone else on here who DOESN'T follow the "rules"  or are we all robots?
Which rules don't you follow in fishkeeping?
I'm interested to see who the risktakers are and what the outcomes have been........

[pegasus]

I not only read rules but I also understand them, even better I try to learn how they came about. With this knowledge, I feel more confident to break them to suit my own set-up.
If you ask a fish keeper about chlorine, he will probably tell you the safe answer: chlorine dissipates in about 24 hours. Meanwhile, a chemist will tell you that after only one hour, 95% of the chlorire will have evaporated in a well aerated tank.
Chloramine does not dissipate that easely. It will dammage guils in the same manners that cigarettes plays with our lungs.

Aylmer use chlorine, what about Chelsea?

[NjOyRiD]

what about Hull?
is it true that if you live somewhere and you have a well, youdont have to put that product in?

[Adam]

I've never used water conditioner.  I have had many different tanks with low-no death rate over the past few years (well, there are always the odd death, due to aggression).  Countless batches of fry, and no ill effects on the fish, from what i can tell.

[slickshooter]

Yes NjOyRiD ,

Chlorine and Chloramine (used in larger cities because chlorine breaks down to fast as it travels across the city) are added to tap water .

You'd be safe if you were on a well or filtered it out.
I believe some filters take out 99.9
Aerating water well for an hour will take out most of the Chlorine if thats what your city uses.

Looks like Pegasus has done his homework on the subject.  :wink:

You can write the city of Ottawa and they will email you a sample of what is in Ottawa's water supply.

I had an informative chat with a gentleman from there.

[dannypd]

They also add florine (sic)....to keep your fishes teech nice and strong.

I let the water sit in a bucket for a few days with an air stone, then put it directly in my tank.  I use the same bucket and sponges, hoping there is some sort of bacteria now, lol.

Yes NjOyRiD ,

Chlorine and Chloramine (used in larger cities because chlorine breaks down to fast as it travels across the city) are added to tap water .

You'd be safe if you were on a well or filtered it out.
I believe some filters take out 99.9
Aerating water well for an hour will take out most of the Chlorine if thats what your city uses.

Looks like Pegasus has done his homework on the subject.  :wink:

You can write the city of Ottawa and they will email you a sample of what is in Ottawa's water supply.

I had an informative chat with a gentleman from there.

[Adam]

my dad tests the water for the city of ottawa .

[slickshooter]

Don't suppose his initials are J.G by any chance are they?

Here are the official levels for Ottawa's tap water circa 2003 (I'll assume its the same today)

These are the minimum,maximum and average  levels listed in mg/l

Chloramine   0.25      2.13     1.32
Chloride        4.9        10.7      6.3
NitrAtes        0.06      0.32      0.17
NitrItes       <0.02       0.31     0.30

[Adam]

no, PH

He owns accutest

[darkdep]

Well, I think you need to truly understand what you're doing in this hobby to "break the rules".  Breaking the rules without knowing WHY you're breaking them or paying attention to the possible downsides is the same as breaking the rules in anything else.

I recently "broke the rules" by converting my planted tank into a "natural" tank...with no filters, airstones or anything other than lights and a heater.  Water params are perfect and stable.  But, before I did that I read a lot about it and understood how to make sure the experiment was working or not.

[artw]

you should get a chlorine test kit just to verify that you are not subliminally hurting your fish.  I can just imagine what chlorine/amine would do to wilds