How does this sound for dithers?

[slickshooter]

As some of you know I have a 75G aquarium housing two 3-4inch Kenyis and three 2-3inch yellow labs.
As dither fish I was thinking of adding maybe 8-10 Tiger Barbs as I heard they do well with my Cichlids as well as 1 Red Tailed Black Shark.I read they are compatible is this true?
I have an Aquaclear 500 taking care of the filtration and the temp around 78 with PFS as substrate.

[ambushman2j]

is there alot of violence in your tank?

[slickshooter]

Violence now is at zero as I only have 2 kenyis and the 3 labs.......
I read on a few other sites that Tiger Barbs have been used as dither fish to make the Kens and labs come out  more.I also read that 1 red tailed black shark would be fine with the cichlids.I have one in a 25 gallon with a bunch of tetras and such and they are fine.A little chasing but otherwise unscathed.
You suspect the cichlids will dismember the barbs???

[ambushman2j]

I think it's quite possible..I would suggest if you really have to use dither fish, and I would only use dither fish if there's extreme violence in your tank specially male v. female violence, I would go with giant danios

[slickshooter]

The only reasons i'm  looking into dither fish (Tiger Barbs) are because they may help my cichlids come out more and I think a schooling fish will look nice at the middle to top of the tank.
I realize many people use Danios but personally I find them dull looking.Curious.....I know danios can have a little mean streak and will hold their own in a Cichlid tank.Tigers are fast moving fish with a little nipping in their blood so wouldnt they do ok with the Cichlids?!? I read on several sites they'd do fine but my luck they'll be an expensive lunch.....I know just because a few people write it it doesnt make it fact.
You stated before that a good way to make my fish come out more would be to stock alot more of what I have which is still a possibility.
I saw some orange Cichlids at SuperPet On Merivale do you know what those may be so I can research them?
Ideally I'd like to get maybe 4 different colour variations in my tank.And possibly 4 of each colour.So that'd make a total of 16 Cichlids.Researching these fish is tough because of the variety....doesnt help that some people use the scientific names which I never remember!!
Thank you very much for all your help the last couple weeks.
Cheers

[Pisidan]

for dither fish i use Australian rainbows and they work great they school and seem to work...they also have some nice colours in them as well...and there r diffrent types so lots to choose from!!! Good Luck!!

[gvv]

Barbs should be fine with cichlids if you are talking about the violence from the cichlid side. But the prefer neutral (pH 6,5 - 7,0) and hardness of about 10. Your cichlids need more.
The question is do you really need some dither fish. After some time they couls get used to your existence and even will demand food when they will see you. At least it happens to me.

[slickshooter]

Interesting views..........from the sites I've reviewed their respective water qualities can be matched up.Although I must admit there was quite a variety depending on the site.
At a ph of 7.5-8.0 I'd think everyone would be happy?!?
I've seen it listed between 6-8 for the Tigers and 8-9 for the Kenyi's.
I think I may give it a shot tomorrow with the tigers and let everyone know the deal in a couple days.
I have not heard a definetive "no" so I'll assume it is possible.If I see any damage I'll house the tigers in my 35.
My Cichlids do currently come out for feedings as soon as I get the container down and they see it they are right on top of the water...otherwise though they are in their caves.
Maybe if I glue the fish food container to the outside of the tank they'll always stay out? LOL
Thanks again all.

[ambushman2j]

the orange ones at superpet merivale (where I work) are likely red zebras, a watered down version of "Metriclima Esterae" Created by breeding a albino (or white) Male Esterae with a Orange female Esterae, deriving the Red x Red Zebra..they are a very popular fish found in just about every fish store.

Personally if your just trying to get your fish to come out more, I would suggest adding more cichlids rather then getting barbs..when you have a heavily stocked tank you rarely don't see some out and about..you might still see them all hide when you first approach the tank, but if you stay still for awhile they will come out and resume normal activity

[luvfishies]

I would just add some more mbuna, like Metriaclima Estherae, Fuelleborni, or Socolofi. You have a pretty empty tank for a few mbuna, and they tend to do better with lots of rockework and lots of fish.

I would also invest in another filter, as an AC500 isn't enough, long term.

[ambushman2j]

I agree with luvfishies, ac500 would not be enough for me either..and to get them to be more social, more fish would do the trick IMO as well

[gvv]

...their respective water qualities can be matched up...

Unfortunatly only to some extend.
I agree with luvfishies - instead of adding the "dither" fish it is better to add fish from the same origin. But it is all up to you.

[slickshooter]

Geez this is getting confusing.........when I had these fish (2Kenyis-3labs) in my 35gallon I was told they needed alot more room by a few people on here.Now I've got a 75g and I can get alot more fish.Won't I be back where I started?!?
Also I though I would be doing ok with the AC500 as its rated for 100g+ tanks.........I realize it matters which type of fish I keep.....obviously Oscars have more waste than a neon.Still I thought this filter would be fine If I did a weekly water change with sand syphoning why would it not be?
I've decided to go with more Cichlids then can you please give me a "complete"(obviously this is impossible I know) list of compatible Cichlids that have some colour so I can research them a bit.
As I stated earlier ideally I'd prefer groups of 4 fish of varying colours.As in 4 kenyis 4 labs 4 red zebras etc....Does that mean I should get a 3-1 ratio female to male with these fish so the males do not harass?If I do it that way I supose I loose out on colour because generally females have less colour correct?Is it possible to keep an all male tank with my setup?
Thanks again everyone I truly apreciate it

[luvfishies]

It's confusing isn't it? Basically you were warned about the lack of "real estate" in the 35 for active, territorial fish. Now that you have the real estate, you can stock the tank as it should be . In the 35 there just wasn't enough room, long term.

As for filtration, I would definately invest in another filter, more for water circulation, and some added biofiltration and mechanical filtration; Mbuna are messy fish, and will appreciate a second filter, For comparison, on my 65g (same footprint as your 75, just not as tall) I have a Fluval 404, an AC500 and an AC300, stuffed with sponges and Biomax rings. No carbon.

Red Zebra (Estherae), Ps Acei, Ps socolofi, Fuelleborni, Johanni are all colourful fish that are easy to find, and would go well with what you have. You're right, 3-1 f/m ratio is ideal, but sometimes hard to acheive, unless you vent the fish to tell the sex.

Here is an older pic of the 65, with 20 or so Mbuna in it:

[ambushman2j]

yeah I agree, most cichlids should not be kept in anything less then a 50, that's why they said there's not enough room..but a 75 is more then adequate..you can easily get upwards of 20-30 fish if you wanted.

stay away from similar looking fish, like kenyi and salousi and demasoni are all similar looking fish, therefore you might have problems with aggresion between them or cross breeding..I would even suggest staying away from same first name fish, like any PS fish might have problems with your Kenyi, for instance my PS Salousi fight with my PS Socolofi, I often find the Socolofi with chunks missing from him.. I would go with a labiotropheus as luv suggested, there's MANY fulleborni colour morphs out there..red zebras are good and are colourful, you could throw a melanchromis species in there, make sure they are smaller then the rest of them as they are highly aggressive

[artw]

yeah I agree with Ambushman and Luvfishies........   always add cichlids before dither but watch out for crossbreeding.   I personally use giant danios with my wild Estherae colonies

[slickshooter]

How do these sound........and are they available around here?
Melanchromis Chipokae
Aulonocara -Ruby Red
Tropheus-Black Bemba
Neolomprologus Sexfsciatus
Neolomprologus Lelupi
Metraclima Estherae-red zebra (what I saw at superpet merivale?)
Tropheus Moorii
Tropheus Ikola
I'm not thinking of adding all of these together but I thought they were attractive fish.....would there be any problems adding any of these?

[artw]

I wouldn't mix Tropheus with Malawis.
I wouldn't put the melanochromis in with the aulonocara.
I wouldn't put the melanochromis with the red x reds.
I wouldn't put more than one species of tropheus in one tank.

if Sue is around here she might comment on the tropheus.

[ambushman2j]

I agree with art on everything but putting melanchromis with red x red, I have done this before and had good success..they are both highly agressive fish, however I would try and make sure the melanchromis was a bit smaller then the red x red

[slickshooter]

I've added 5 Metriclima Esterae (thanks Drew) with a 3f-2m ratio.
So now I have a semi stalked tank as follows:

1 Male Kenyi (pic in link below)
1 Female Kenyi (want to add 2 more)
2 Female Yellow labs
1 Male Yellow Lab
2 unsexed Yellow Lab Fry (my guess is female)
3 Females Metriclima Esterae
2 Males Metriclima Esterae

Are there any Cichlids that will inhabit the top of my tank moreso than the bottom?Also more opinions on bottom feeders appreciated as long as they do the job cleaning up missed food...algae would be a bonus but not a concern.Is a Red Tailed black Shark an option?I know in my 25gallon it picks algae and rumages through the gravel.
I'd like a few black cichlids..any compatible that come to mind?

Anyone with interest in Ottawa area photography (and pics of my tank) should check out........

WAYNEBRUNET.FOTOPIC.NET