Thorny snails?

[succinctfish]

Hooray, our thorny snail has moved a whole 6 inches, so that's a total of about 12 inches since we got it   So that's a little over a $1 an inch if you consider the cost   It was even showing off its foot on the side of the tank, so there's life there yet.  You did say PFG that it was the only one just sitting there in plain sight, so perhaps it's just a relaxed slow moving snail.  Too bad one of your snails passed on, now we have even less chance of breeding them locally, perhaps we should have snail stud fees, send one off to another tank for a couple of weeks to see if anything comes of it

[Laura]

Hi guys - I sent a PM for feeding suggestions to someone on the snail site (applesnail.net) who mentioned their thorny snails had great appetites.  She very kindly replied and here are her comments:
I feed mine Bottom Bites - my homemade food.  There are several homemade food recipes in the forum that they could try.  I'm afraid it won't narrow things down much for them because there's so many different things in it, protein and vegies, along with garlic, herbs, wild fish oils, liquid calcium, etc.  Bok Choy, Green Beans Romaine, various greens, Peas, Squash, Spirulina & Dill Weed are some of the consistent vegies I add in.  They seem to ignore shrimp pellets so I don't think they're big on protein.  Algae and micro-organisms are the fare in their river habitat.

The only thing they've really been overly enthusiastic about is the Bottom Bites, so I'd suggest that they start playing with recipes

Hope that helps - APW, I think your food company should get into snail cookies as your next venture!  Just in case folks don't know, you want to cook any veggies you put in the tank first.  In feeding my snails cooked veg, I found out that my SAE love them, and the khulis even have a nibble on zucchini.

[darkdep]

Thanks for the info Laura.  I think I'll try a little of my Goldfish formula on mine, as it's veggie based and see what it does

[Melody]

Hi there!  The closest we can come to an ID (I say 'we', but it was really everyone else...lol) is a Lithasia species, possibly L. armigera.  If not for the spaced sutures, it would also look like Pachymelania byronensis, which I believe is what a German Aquabid seller was selling them as, but don't quote me on that.

They appear to love homemade foods most - mine are Bottom Bites but there are numerous recipes here:
http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6645
They don't seem too thrilled with protein.  Here they are with the Bottom Bites:



They're a river snail it seems, so I'm setting up a small habitat simulation in the hopes of having them breed.  I haven't had any deaths <knock on a simulated wood-like substance>.

I can get more if anyone wants them shipped - $12 CAD each + shipping (which isn't cheap to Ontario, just so you know ).  I'd like to see these little beauties distributed so we can all compare notes :-).

Edit:  Sorry Laura, didn't see your post - my apologies for the repetition.

[darkdep]

Hi Melody, thanks very much for the info.  As I'm not a snail expert the info you and Laura have dug up is very much appreciated.

You say these are a river snail...do you know from where they hail?

[Laura]

No problem at all Melody - glad to have you here .  I'm pleased you posted - I wasn't sure about the etiquette of posting info from a pm, so I didn't include your name on the relayed info.
Thanks for the links and the extra info on them - they certainly are beautiful.
If they're from a river, do you think they have higher oxygen needs?

[Melody]

Hi Melody, thanks very much for the info.  As I'm not a snail expert the info you and Laura have dug up is very much appreciated.

You say these are a river snail...do you know from where they hail?

I don't think anyone is a snail expert...lol....very little is known about specific species and most of what is known about their care has been provided by hobbyists.  That's why I'd like to see them distributed so we get a better grip on their requirements.  The recognized authority is Applesnail.net - even Goverment studies quote and/or recommend the site sometimes.  So while they may not have much for info on something new, they can make some educated guesses.  The site is owned by a gentleman who holds a PhD, and several of the members are well educated and highly experienced.  If you're going to take any information on the Internet as truth, those credentials go a long way.  I am currently trying to get a positive ID through some of the scientists I can dig up in article references, but getting a reply isn't going to be easy if past attempts to contact is any indication.

As for location, that's the kicker about the Lithasia ID - they're in the US.  These (as in my particular ones) were imported from Thailand or possibly Myanmar.  They may just be farming them there of course, but farming a US snail for importation into Canada is kind of odd.  Mine also LOOK wild-caught - shell damage & such.  The other possibility is that there is a Lithasia species there that nobody knows about, which would also explain why it looks somewhat different.  New species are acknowledged all the time, so it could happen easily enough.  OR they could be another Pachymelania species, which seems more likely since Pachymelania appears in Africa.  As I mentioned in the other forum, if I could cross the two species, our Thorny Snails would be the outcome....lol.

The good news is that both are river snails (based on internet info), so we can at least make some guesses about their care.  Simulating habitat / natural environment is the best way to get something to breed... works for fish anyways  .

[Melody]

No problem at all Melody - glad to have you here .  I'm pleased you posted - I wasn't sure about the etiquette of posting info from a pm, so I didn't include your name on the relayed info.
Thanks for the links and the extra info on them - they certainly are beautiful.
If they're from a river, do you think they have higher oxygen needs?

As long as I haven't confessed my life of crime to you in a PM, I don't think there's anything wrong with pasting from one...lol.  You mentioned that people in another forum were wondering, so I assumed you'd either copy it or paraphrase.   You're a born researcher - its people who go after information aggressively who make the discoveries.

Good thinking on the oxygen levels - that's exactly why I started thinking about a river tank.  I have other river species so its time I did that anyway.  I think that may be why one was lost in the heat (pure guesswork here), as the increased temp's reduce oxygen levels in the water.  If the theory is correct, it may also improve their activity levels and in turn increase the appetite to provide a well oxygenated environment.  If another tank isn't an option, an airstone will help.  It shouldn't bother your other tank occupants as long as there's a place in the tank with less movement so they can rest.  Most fish love airstones, in my experience, and they help a great deal in the heat.

I've noticed mine are more active at night - anyone else notice that?  Many snails are nocturnal so I'm not surprised, but anything we can nail as fact would be helpful.

[darkdep]

Well, mine is in my office tank and inaccessible to me at night.  I do come in to work about 6:45am, and I usually notice it curled up somewhere and not moving.  I usually add some spirulina flake when I come in for the fish, and that usually gets all the snails in the tank moving.

[Melody]

Good to know, thank you 

[succinctfish]

Sad news, after a couple of days of lots of visibility and movement around the tank, our thorny snail has gone awol.  I have not seen it for days, and a thorough search of the area around the tank has yielded no snail.  I am hoping it is somewhere happily wandering around the gravel and plants in the tank; I am still putting in food just in case, but I am not optimistic.  It was doing so well, and I had grown quite fond of it.  Fingers crossed that it is just feeling shy, and only coming out at night.

[PaleoFishGirl]

I hope it's still in there - I sometimes go for a day or two without seeing mine.  It doesn't really move around a lot

[Melody]

I think they prefer the night, or mine do.  If you have any caves, check that out.  Also check the filter - snails get caught up in eating the food off them and end up in them.

I had a friend who lost an Applesnail several months ago - it showed up a couple of weeks ago... IN ANOTHER TANK!  I guess it hitched a ride on a net as a baby, and she's only been looking in the other tank so she didn't find it.  They're good at hide-n-seek.  I hope that's the case for you too!

[darkdep]

I just got back from my trip and am hoping mine is still ok...haven't been into the office in almost 2 weeks.  Hopefully the friend I asked to keep an eye on everything did a good job

[Melody]

Thanks to an Applesnail.net member, they have been more likely ID'ed as the newly identified Brotia praetermissa or Brotia pagodula.    

[PaleoFishGirl]

Hmm... well, it's definitely not B. praetermissa - see journal description PDF

I can't find much out about the other species.

Babble & Succinct, have you seen your snail since you 'misplaced' it?? Mine is still doing fine. APW?

[darkdep]

Yep mine is still running around ticking off the shelldwellers.

[Melody]

http://allesummichrum.de/html/brotia_herculea.html

Scroll down for pic's.  The new species I've only started researching, but I thought I'd mention it.

[succinctfish]

sniff...alas, no, I was just pming Melody about this, and asking how much shipping to Ottawa would be...I miss my thorny snail.  It was doing so well, then the next day, poof it disappeared.  I haven't taken apart the tank to find it, so it's not conclusive, but I haven't seen it at all.  I've checked the floor, the surrounding tanks, but nothing.  I'd at least like to keep the shell if it has shuffled off this mortal coil.  Perhaps someday this mystery will be solved, I'll find it when I move the tank stand or something.  I'm happy to know that your snails are thriving, and visible.  For now we'll just say mine is MIA.

[PaleoFishGirl]

Cool - that's our snail... any luck tracking down the actual title of Gould, 1847 for the original description?

Sorry, succinct... maybe it'll surprise you and show up (alive) someday soon?