ATTENTION: CHANGES TO OVAS WEBSITE AND CLASSIFIEDS

[robt18]

Hello OVASers,

In the near future you will be seeing a few changes to the website and classifieds on our forum. There were many reasons for these changes and the options have been weighed by the executive and the following decisions have been made.

1. Classified ads will only be able to be posted by OVAS club members. Ads will be able to be viewed by anyone, and anyone can message vendors regarding items for sale/free/trade/looking for.

2. The maximum number of active ads at any given time for a single vendor will be 5, and these ads will be active for 30 days. Please group your items to ensure you do not exceed the 5 ad maximum.

3. For the time being, rules regarding the bumping of ads will remain the same as they have been previously. Please review the OVAS forum/classified rules to clarify any issues.

These changes will take effect on September 1, 2012. We appreciate your understanding with the change. If you have any QUESTIONS about the changes, please post them in this thread and our executives/moderators will answer them as soon as possible.

If you wish to purchase an OVAS membership, it can be done here (clicky).

More updates to the website are on the way to make it more representative of the club's activities and help better integrate the forum with OVAS events and programs.

We truly feel this is the best option for OVAS as a club going into the future based on our research of past statistics and we thank you for your cooperation.

Rob
OVAS Vice President

[Feivel]

So much for the for sale section ...... I see it collapsing from lack of itemz not leavong it open to the public.

[Hookup]

Hello OVASers,

In the near future you will be seeing a few changes to the website and classifieds on our forum. There were many reasons for these changes and the options have been weighed by the executive and the following decisions have been made.

1. Classified ads will only be able to be posted by OVAS club members. Ads will be able to be viewed by anyone, and anyone can message vendors regarding items for sale/free/trade/looking for.

2. The maximum number of active ads at any given time for a single vendor will be 5, and these ads will be active for 30 days. Please group your items to ensure you do not exceed the 5 ad maximum.

3. For the time being, rules regarding the bumping of ads will remain the same as they have been previously. Please review the OVAS forum/classified rules to clarify any issues.

These changes will take effect on September 1, 2012. We appreciate your understanding with the change. If you have any QUESTIONS about the changes, please post them in this thread and our executives/moderators will answer them as soon as possible.

If you wish to purchase an OVAS membership, it can be done here (clicky).

More updates to the website are on the way to make it more representative of the club's activities and help better integrate the forum with OVAS events and programs.

We truly feel this is the best option for OVAS as a club going into the future based on our research of past statistics and we thank you for your cooperation.

Rob
OVAS Vice President

Pardon my bluntness but this seems like its stirring the pot that was finally settled out.  I have not seen any issues with the classifieds in months and months, so WHY THE CHANGE?


As a paying member for years now, I'd like to see the research and data that was analyzed.  Please post it.

[bt]

As a paying member for years now, I'd like to see the research and data that was analyzed.  Please post it.

Also as a paying member (though not as long-standing), I second this.

Edit: I'm a firm believer in solid data over intuition when it comes to decision making, but at the moment intuition is all I have to go with and it says this is a bad idea.

[az]

IMO,

maybe...non members can be allowed to do 5 posts/yr in the classified.....general hobbyists really dont need to offload stuff more often than that.

however, those who are selling items grown/bred/fragged regularly, should pay more than just a $20 membership fee.


 

[elk]

Its ok,us non memebers can still contact members to buy their products.
All we have to do is use Kijiji or usedottawa to sell.I have better sales there than on ovas.
The classifieds were locked to ovas members before and it didnt work out then so whats different now.

[exv152]

I personally think this is a poor decision for both members and non members. The only people who will benefit are sponsors.  Perhaps if we knew the reasons or motivations for these changes, it may make it more understandable.

[bergenm]

Just a suggestion - if the exec want to implement these policies then say so at the time of the election so we can make an informed decision when we vote. Don't hang the outgoing president with this... We have tried to do this before (right down to hanging the outgoing pres with being the messenger) and it was so very successful...

http://ovas.ca/forum/index.php?topic=45647.0

Last time we tried this it cost us our Pres., our VP, a number of long term members, lots of potential new members and wound up with a competing website...

[dpatte]

I will be getting a 2012-2013 membership as soon as i see it being offered by someone, and intended to before I saw this policy change. In the mean time, and as a past president, and as a member off and on over the last 10 years, and as designer of OVAS first interactive website, I totally disagree with this policy change.

Every businessman with a website knows that social networking is the best way to bring new clients to the product. What is the product here? OVAS MEMBERSHIP. The more open socially you make this site, the more members you will get. If you close it down and restrict it, and make it antisocial, you will lose OVAS memberships. The whole point of the site is to share between members and non-members as a way of LEARNING and also as a way of INVITING members to join OVAS, and having a friendly open social network is the best way to do that.

And as a member, I want to see everything that locals may have for sale, whether they are members of OVAS or not.

I suggest you put this to a vote of the membership.

[dpatte]

elk, and jetjumper. Please tell us where you will be posting you ads (tell us offline). We can certainly make a case that sponsors will be losing pageviews to those other sites if we have a list of those sites. And if sponsors lose page views on OVAS because people are now going elsewhere, they will stop being sponsors of OVAS!

And whether people like it or not, most people come to read the classified. When they arrive the will see the sponsors ads. This helps their business. But if people stop coming to read the classifieds, or outsiders are shunned by the club, the membership will collapse again, and the sponsiors will leave anyway.

Don;t forget, when we added a social side to the site years ago - membershio went from 15 to 120 in 3 years. That was with open ads. Do sponsors want a to advertise on an antisocial, collapsing club's website?

[Brine]

     I read the classifieds multiple times a day, every day. I haven't seen any reason to make any changes. Admittedly, I don't read the SW ads as I keep freshwater so there may have been some shenanigans there that I missed.
     I did notice that Charlie aka Errol had posted a few times of late reminding people to read the forum rules. Once here...
http://ovas.ca/forum/index.php?topic=54334.msg305240#msg305240
...and I think he posted once in the shout box as well.
So it seems to me that something was brewing but I know not what.

[Stussi613]

While I can understand people being frustrated by the changes it's a pretty well known fact that there are people that are not members of the club that buy and sell thousands of dollars of equipment and livestock for free on OVAS. Many of them for profit.  They contribute little to the furthering of the club and you can check the local "for sale" sites and see all of the things they are selling there.  On top of all this the sponsors are really the ones paying for the site to be hosted and the associated bandwidth with all of the people who are selling items not putting any money into the club.

I'm just a member of the club, although I have volunteered for a position in the next season, so I'm not basing this on any insight other than what I've seen in the few years of being a member. Anyone that is buying a new tank, some substrate or a filter could easily save the amount of money it costs to join the club in a purchase, or two, so I've never understood why the membership is so low considering the number of people that use the forums and the classifieds on a regular basis.

[Stussi613]

Membership so low.....why ? well most of us have wife, kids, work.....social life !!!! why would I pay for a membership If I can attend ? Has for selling for profit.....if you monitor the price of stuff that is often sold there.....well let me tell you that when selling stuff for 1/2 price you paid for.....this in not profit ! and how about Group orders....like I often do......I'm going to NY this weekend and briging back about 10 orders......in there there is nothing for me and I'm not even charging gas or anything......I'm doing it for free.....because this is what really a community is.....helping others not profit. And sponsors.....well many of them started in their basement.....like Ray, Pat and Michael and have now legit businesses....so if it was not from the classified they would have never started up in this business.......At the long run OVAS will ending up creating 2 class of members......this is segregation my fried.....and segregation = ignorance.

I can assure you that there are many people on OVAS selling frags and shrimp/fry/juvis that are making good money without paying a dime to advertise their items to a directed market of people that actively read the ads. When you do things like pick up group orders without charging gas you're boosting the community...and that is commendable.

[dpatte]

"I can assure you that there are many people on OVAS selling frags and shrimp/fry/juvis that are making good money without paying a dime to advertise their items to a directed market of people that actively read the ads."

So your solution is to alienate them further from the club, and at the same time alienate more club members?

Why are you so upset that they are making money (while saving members money) unless you are representing the sponsors instead of the members of the club. The sponsors didn't elect the executive - the members did!

Any sponsor with any business sense, will know that increasing traffic on the site will increase page views for their ads, not only from club members that already know about them, but also by visitors that come to see the classified!

Are you also expecting that someone leaving the hobby will buy a membership to OVAS just to dump his equipment for half price? It wont happen. He'll advertise elsewhere, tkaing the page views elsewhere.

If you don;t understand social networking and its power of building a website, then you have not noticed technology for the last 10 years.

[elk]

More than half of the present for sale ads on ovas are by non members.

[sas]

Please stay on topic and civil or the thread will be locked.
Thanks.

[robt18]

Here are some reasons why the decision was made.

1. Membership has been extremely low recently. The dip coincided with the time the classifieds were opened. The club needs members and membership dues to sustain financial stability and fund the club's activities.

2. OVAS is a site with a very directed target audience: aquatic hobbyists. The benefit of having your products exposed to this market is very desirable, and many would agree the classified can prove to be quite profitable. OVAS and its members pay for the fees to maintain the website, it is only fair that its members receive benefits as well.

3. Moderation of the classifieds has been an issue, and the issue becomes much greater when the classifieds are open to everyone. Our moderators are all volunteers. We need these volunteers to maintain the site. If the workload is far too heavy for them, the site would go to shambles. This will help make their 'jobs' easier.

4. OVAS club does not equal OVAS website. We are a social group, we have monthly meetings, we have additional events, and we interact. The current executive plans to spend more time and effort on the club's program, which is made easier when there are fewer web issues to handle. We encourage everyone to come out and join us, sell your items at meetings, auctions, etc. and interact with the other members in order to get the most out of your OVAS experience.

In short: Financial, benefit to members, lessen burden on moderation team.

To answer other questions...

People running for the exec can't really express what they want to do since all decisions are made by the entire group. Members do however have the ability to state what they wish to do with the club at the May meeting for voting, and other members can ask them questions. Our exec is all voted in.

Sponsors have generally been in favour of closed classifieds as well, not worrying about page traffic, but rather pleased with less ad clutter.

Use kijiji, use UsedOttawa. We encourage it. The OVAS site is run by the OVAS club which represents its members. In one's membership fees includes the privilege of posting ads with a narrow target audience with minimal clutter.

Hopefully this clears some up.

[mmaisonneuve]

Then since it's a member and sponsor decision how about publishinh the list of Sponsor / Members that have decided to exclude other.....this way other can decide if they want to deal or not with the ones resposible for the exclusion......

This would allow everyone to take enlighted decisions.

Thanks

[elk]

Totally agree!

[Cheebs]

My personal opinion is that classifieds should remain open. It allows for much more variety and opportunities for great deals, and as a person who browses them semi-regularly, I don't find that they are cluttered much at all. Over a week later and the same ads are usually still on the front page. There have been some outstanding "leaving the hobby" deals, but of course there is no incentive for someone leaving the hobby to buy a fish club membership. With less non members visiting the page, it may mean less peopl seeing my ads as well.

I respect the decision, but I don't entirely agree with it.